Scope for my first Rifle

[BuffCyclist]

Now that I've got my first AR coming to me in the mail, I've started looking at scopes/optics that I am considering purchasing. The rifle is a S&W M&P15OR and I'd like to use it more for getting into the longer range target practice, so preferrably something with some zoom to it (though I have no idea what is a good zoom range for all around use). I don't know much about scopes and the more research I do, the more confused I get. Hypothetically, at the moment my budget is $500 as I can't see myself paying more for a scope at the moment until my longer range use can no longer be achieved with the $500. Though I won't actually be purchasing the scope for a month or two so I can get used to my M&P15 and decide what I really want it's direction to be.

In my research, I've found the Nikon M-223 4-12x42SF with BDC 600 reticle. Seems to be relatively new, so it's been hard to find reviews for it, but I like the concept of the BDC reticle. Does anyone have any opinions on this scope, handled it, shot with it, read a review on it elsewhere, or have another recommendation that is along these lines?

In the end of things, I'd like to get a quality scope that I can keep for years and transfer between rifles (as I see myself getting another rifle eventually), that has a mil-dot style reticle (as opposed to just crosshairs), windage and elevation adjustments. I've always had the mentality that if I pay a bit more now (better than entry level) it will last a bit longer, so as long as it's a quality scope, I might be able to justify spending a little more. At the moment, I'm slowly specing out an SPR for long range shooting, so it'd be really excellent if I could get a scope now to use for both rifles.

I've posted up on GlockTalk and some members there recommended a red dot with a 3x magnifier. While the setup does look nice, it is more costly than I can afford so I'd rather stick with a typical scope. I have also found the line of Leupold Mark AR scopes that are similarly priced to the Nikon M-223. Does anyone here have experience with the Leupold Mark AR scopes? Or can compare Nikon scopes to Leupold scopes (the higher end ones, not the bottom of the line plastic ones).

If anyone has a lot of insight as far as scopes, perhaps we can meet up at the range and you'd be willing to share some of your knowledge and/or let me look through a couple of different scope setups?

[Sam]

Try one of the new Redfield 2x7's. Be perfect for a 223, even has a nice BDC reticle
Give a yell next weekend and I'll let you try the one on my Browning.

Sam

[BuffCyclist]

Thanks Sam, I'll check the Redfield scopes out. I was told by Magpul that I could use their MOE Handguard and a rail (specifically purchasing the rail) to mount a front BUPS, but was told on another site that I can't use it as the handguard moves and wasn't meant to mount a sight. So I'm stuck with mounting it on the front of the top rail, which gives me a sight radius of 6-8 inches...which isn't much on a rifle.

So, I'll either be buying a scope sooner than planned, or a free float rail (which is already on the want list). But, that depends on the price of the scope and/or free float rail. Either way, I don't think I'll be shooting much with it for quite a while.

And I'm planning on finding a specific load of .223 to always shoot with. Will most likely be purchasing my .233 from BulletBoyAmmo once I get some brass to reload with, since he shoots .223 I KNOW that his recipes are spectacular, as they are his match loads.

[BulletBoyAmmo]

BuffCyclist,

I believe a free floating rail is always a must on a rifle if you plan on being accurate out past 100-200 yards. However, a free float rail does not allow you to mount optics on the handguard, that is still not a solid platform. The free float rail simply removes any contact or pressure from the handguard to the barrel. If your plan is to just have a battle rifle capable of hitting targets within the 50 to 300 yard range, a standard barrel AR will be fine, and an optic that has no zoom or simply a set 4x zoom would work great. If you plan on being accurate out past that yardage you should think about getting a heavy barrel, free float tube, and a 3-9x optic that mounts to the carry handle or top rail well. I have a Burris 3X-9X-40mm Fullfield II Ballistic Plex scope mounted to one of my long range AR's and it holds .25 MOA beautifully! For less than $200 you can't beat it!

[nmstang]

BuffCyclist,

I have a Burris 3X-9X-40mm Fullfield II Ballistic Plex scope mounted to one of my long range AR's and it holds .25 MOA beautifully! For less than $200 you can't beat it!

I will cast another vote for the Burris Fullfield II scope. I have one mounted on my TC Encore Pro Hunter .50cal Muzzleloader and it is a very nice scope for the money. It is also a very durable scope, I took it on a hunt in the Florida Mountains for Ibex a couple of years ago and it got beat to death climbing around those God Forsaken mountains. It is still dead-on even with all of the punishment it got on that hunt.

[Sam]

If you plan on being accurate out past that yardage you should think about getting a heavy barrel, free float tube, and a 3-9x optic that mounts to the carry handle or top rail well.

I don't know what you mean by "accurate past that".
In my end of the world that means man sized to anything less than 1K from field position without rest. That is pretty doable with an issue AR. What for heavy bbl, float tube and a 3x9?

[BulletBoyAmmo]

I'm talking about maintaining at least 1/2" grouping out past 300 yards. A man sized target would be more like holding anywhere from 2-6 foot groups, depending on whether you're firing vertical or horizantal strings :) I guess we are talking about whether BuffCyclist wants to hit a man sized target or shoot competition accuracy, two different goals that require two different rifles.

[Sam]

You are making a big assumption that anyone could shoot a 1/2" group past 300 yards..
The real issues with accuracy are not hardware related, they are software.

Americans have always had the issue of wanting to "buy success". that doesn't work very well and when it does, only under very controlled conditions, using a bench and/or contrived supports.

For the record when I say "man sized" I operate under the DoD definition which is 18"x24". They only count the torso.
BTW, most issue M-4's ( and all that I have tried) can do that out to 700 meters from prone, only requires 3 MOA capability.

[BuffCyclist]

Well, I would like to eventually add a free float rail to this rifle, but I may do that in a step up to building a SPR, where when I get the money to finish the SPR I'd remove the free float from my M&P15 and switch back to a basic handguard. Then I'd have a basic carbine for anything up to a couple hundred yards and then an SPR for longer ranges.

And as far as 1/2" groupings at 300 yards, I believe that BulletBoyAmmo can do that. I know he is a GREAT marksman and holds quite a few medals. Perhaps he could post up what he has done in the past using which specific hardware. I've known him (in person) for a couple of years and if he says he can do it, I bet he can.

I decided to spend this last paycheck to pay off one of my credit cards instead of buying the scope, so I'll have a few more weeks to decide on which scope I'd like in-particular.

In the meantime though, I may end up tracking down a basic M4 style front sight post (or metal front BUIS) to swap out for the railed gas block. Since I can't mount the MagPul front BUIS on the handguard, or railed gas block it only leaves me the main rail which is only 5-6" from the rear sight. While that may be good for me to be able to get used to my rifle, it won't do much for accuracy at longer distances.

BulletBoyAmmo, I may give you a call this weekend about reloading some brass for me (.40 and .223) and then we can talk about scopes then if you've got the time.

[BuffCyclist]

Well, I finally decided on a scope setup. After doing a lot more research, and talking with some friends I came to the conclusion that a 3-9x scope would fit my needs and my bill perfectly.

So, I ordered a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 Ballistic Plex scope yesterday and a Burris AR P.E.P.R scope mount from SWFA.com. I ordered it through them because they had a great price and it seemed like they had it in stock.

Well, they deducted the money from my bank account this morning (debit card) and then I received an email later saying both items are on backorder. The mount has an ETA of 2-3 weeks and the scope they have no idea on.

Dam, and here I was trying to support the smaller company, but I should have just ordered through Cabelas as they definitely HAVE both in stock. And, the scope is the same price and the mount is just $10 more, which I would have been fine with.

Worst thing is, I don't want to hassle with trying to call them to cancel the order. They can only cancel the order over the phone (or so they told me) and they close at the same time I get home from work (~4pm).

Just a heads up to anyone ordering from SWFA, be careful if you don't want to wait for your item and are assuming they have it in stock.