Open Carry in Southern New Mexico

[BR1HOW2A]

I have been open carry, here in New Mexico for several years now. I have been in Las Cruces, Carlsbad, Alamogordo, Tularosa, Cloudcroft, as well as a few other towns. So far I have had all positive experiences.

It is my opinion that Open Carry is not for everyone. I think it takes a certain personality, or a certain way you carry yourself "so to speak". We are judged on first impressions. I think that even though it should not, it does have a great deal with how others take you at first sight. The way you dress, the way you talk to others.

A person who say is having a bad day, and not smiling. Maybe just to serious looking, might normally just be ignored. But put a sidearm on and this changes. In my opinion you have a responsibility as an Open Carry to act a certain way.

What do you think? please give your opinion on this subject!

[Descreet38]

BR1HOW2A - sorry but from carrying over 30 years my experiences have been that more issues revolve around those who open carry than with CCW. FBI statistics over the years also show that more guns are removed from the owner while in open carry.

It is just my belief that I do not want anyone knowing when I am carrying and when I am not. Another plus is that I don't have to live up to someone elses expectations on what I should or should look like or dress in order to carry a firearm. What they don't see won't stir up any self indulged images.

As far as acting a certain way when you carry a firearm. I think a person should act appropriately at all times regardless of his carry status.

I do agree very much with your statement concerning OC is NOT for everyone (and neither is CCW).

I have met a lot of people who I do not enjoy being around because of their attitude and actions while carrying a weapon and I usually choose to not be around them in the future.

My 2 cents

[Jizzle]

It's my belief that open carry is (as I have said in other threads) more of a deterent to the BG. That's why we carry isn't it? To protect ourselves. I don't find it nessesary to ambush him.

I don't think that there is a certain way that you should dress while open carrying. There are certain negative stigmas that go with certain types of dress and this is rather unfortunate. I don't think you should have to modify your "look" to fit what america perceives as an acceptable armed citizen.

And yes as far as acting while carrying or not. One should always exhibit self confidence and manners as well as patience. And in my opinion maybe more so while OCing.

[OM44]

Judging by what I have read in several forums, a lot of cops don't
know the law about OC even in their own states. Since I would
hate to have to allow some jerk to remove my handgun and unload
it before returning it to me, I will continue to carry concealed.

I have on a couple of occasions carried openly in Las Cruces, but I
found I was extremely nervous the whole time. I kept imagining 12
LEO's were about to jump out of the bushes pointing AK's at me.

When I carry concealed, I don't have to worry about it.

[Jizzle]

Judging by what I have read in several forums, a lot of cops don't
know the law about OC even in their own states. Since I would
hate to have to allow some jerk to remove my handgun and unload
it before returning it to me, I will continue to carry concealed.

I have on a couple of occasions carried openly in Las Cruces, but I
found I was extremely nervous the whole time. I kept imagining 12
LEO's were about to jump out of the bushes pointing AK's at me.

When I carry concealed, I don't have to worry about it.

lmao man. lmao.

[Sam]

Occasionally I'll open carry, depends on the situation and what I'm doing.
If someone wants to, their issue, not mine.
On the whole, I much prefer the advantages afforded by of concealed carry.

I think a person should act appropriately at all times regardless of his carry status. Most assuredly.

It's my belief that open carry is (as I have said in other threads) more of a deterent to the BG. That's why we carry isn't it? To protect ourselves. I don't find it nessesary to ambush him.
You have confused 2 issues

I carry to protect myself from Evil Doers and want every tactical advantage when I do.
If I want to deter, I'll OC an M1 or a shotgun.

Sam

[Jizzle]

Occasionally I'll open carry, depends on the situation and what I'm doing.
If someone wants to, their issue, not mine.
On the whole, I much prefer the advantages afforded by of concealed carry.

Most assuredly.


You have confused 2 issues

I carry to protect myself from Evil Doers and want every tactical advantage when I do.
If I want to deter, I'll OC an M1 or a shotgun.

Sam

OC negates the "tactical advantage" afforded by CC because you're never chosen as a target. Don't need to ambush the bg that never attacks you.

How many CCers get attacked every year and end up having to use their weapon? Or worse never get the chance to pull it?

We can start this argument if you like.

[Scooter]

OC negates the "tactical advantage" afforded by CC because you're never chosen as a target. Don't need to ambush the bg that never attacks you.

How many CCers get attacked every year and end up having to use their weapon? Or worse never get the chance to pull it?

We can start this argument if you like.

Do you honestly believe that OC negates you from being chosen as a target? If the BG truely intends to cause harm, the OC would be the logical first target. Take out the guy who poses the most imidiate threat, and then proceed. The guy who is CC does not pose a threat to the BG because the BG doesn't know he is armed, thus providing the tactical advantage to the CC.
We can go there, but you only ever argue with your personal opinions and views. Show me proof that the OC isn't targeted. As a high school teacher once told me "he that asserts, so shall he prove." So please, prove this to me.

[Jizzle]

show me where a non leo Ocer was chosen first becuse he was ocing? please do.

[Scooter]

I'm not here to prove your argument for you. Once again, "HE that aserts, so shall HE prove" The purden of proof is now yours.

[Jizzle]

you asserted I was wrong. prove it.

there isn't any proof that someone would go after someone who ocs first. there are no documented cases.

go read the article i helped edit from ocdo that i posted in the dec/nov contest thread. it answers all of your questions. or are you just trying to start a fight?

are you a criminal? do you think like a criminal? i doubt it. so how can you say that the criminal would take out the OCer first.

OC is a show of strength. Just like posting a M249 at the front gate during the recent open house. Do you plan on using it? nope.

Look at the whole thread for the nov/dec thread. You might learn something.

[Colt 45]

Show me proof that the OC isn't targeted. As a high school teacher once told me "he that asserts, so shall he prove." So please, prove this to me.

How can someone prove a negative like that?

Max

[Bman505]

HINT: move this conversation to the contest!!

[Jizzle]

You can't. A flawed way would be to check the stats on crimes commited against people who OC or in the presence of someone that was OCing and compare those with crimes commited against those that CC or in the presence of a ccer. But, that is still really really weak.

[Jizzle]

I tried bman that's what the reference was for!

[Scooter]

How can someone prove a negative like that?

Max

Thank you Colt. This is exactly what I have felt all along. Read through the many threads that he claims that the OC will not be targeted. How can this be proven. He asks if I am a bad guy or think like one, but also claims to know that the BG will not target the OC.

I am not a bad guy, but as a competent individual, if I am in a situation where I have to use my weapon (say as a military member in a war zone) I am looking to neutralize the apparent threat (the guy with a gun visable) first and then assess other potential threats, such as someone who is concealing a weapon from me. If the intent is there, whether they be good intentions such as a military member carrying out a mission or bad intentions such as the BG looking to commit a crime, a threat is a threat and it must be neutralized before you can "safely" continue

[Scooter]

Don't misunderstand me, I don't have any problems with OC. At times, I too OC. But don't try and convince me that by OCing, you are somehow safer than CCing. The bad guy doesn't always tuck tail and run just because you have a gun. See my previoius post as to why I believe this.

[Jizzle]

the threads that have said that hey look they won't be targeted is because there are documented stories of OCers detering a crime just for being in the store/bank et that was targeted. there are criminals that have admitted to avoiding someone/someplace that was armed.

i'll get you the links if you like.

[Scooter]

Please do, that would infact be proof, not opinion then.

[Jizzle]

sure thing. have you read taht article yet or what?

[Scooter]

sure thing. have you read taht article yet or what?

what article? I don't see a link anywhere. If you are reffering to the thread, I've already read it

[Colt 45]

It makes sense to me that a BG would target someone who does not appear to be armed and thus unable to repel an attack. Why would a BG pick a fight with someone who could possibly injure or kill them?

I can understand in a mass-shooting situation that someone openly carrying may be targeted, but not the typical robbery scenarios.

Max

the threads that have said that hey look they won't be targeted is because there are documented stories of OCers detering a crime just for being in the store/bank et that was targeted. there are criminals that have admitted to avoiding someone/someplace that was armed.

i'll get you the links if you like.

[Jizzle]

That was in the 12/28/06 VA-Alert. Dennis O'Conner, was and is a VCDL Board member. Story below...

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The event that VCDL Board member Dennis O'Connor describes below happened in a SunTrust branch a couple of days ago.

SunTrust does not ban their law-abiding customers from legally carrying a firearm for self defense.

Had this been a Wachovia or a BB&T, both of which ban guns, the outcome would probably have been very different.

This event also underlines something that both Dennis and I believe - open carry, in and of itself, can be a strong deterrent to crime. Yes, I know - the criminal COULD do a preemptive strike against someone he sees carrying openly. But in practice such an event is extremely rare. The outcome described below is the usual case.

In analyzing the encounter, the only thing I can flaw Dennis with is not being aware of the significance of what has happening around him. But I have a law enforcement background and was trained to be on the lookout for certain behaviors and do so automatically.

The tellers at the bank, who are probably trained in how to handle a robbery, certainly knew what had just happened!

The other lesson is that crime almost always happens when you least expect it. In this case Dennis was busy getting some deposits taken care of and was focused on that task, something he has done for years routinely without a hitch. So when something unusual happened, his mind was a little slow switching gears.

Looking at it from a criminal's point of view, it was the perfect time for a holdup - the bank had just opened and there were few customers. (You can imagine that it would be much more difficult to rob a bank with, say, thirty people inside.)

In the end, this worked out as it usually does when a criminal finds himself face-to-face with an armed citizen - the criminal flees without a shot being fired.

In this more unusual case, Dennis's gun wasn't even touched or brandished!

Dennis's report:

On Tuesday the 26th of December I went down to the Sun Trust bank in
Hopewell to complete some financial transactions. I got there just as they
were opening and entered with a woman who had been waiting outside. There
were three tellers in position to the left, one customer service associate
at a desk to the right, and the manager was seated in his office to the
rear right, so there were seven of us in the bank.

I have been banking there for years and know the tellers fairly well, who
are quite used to me walking in with my holstered 1911 government model
.45 and two reserve magazines. As I was transacting business with my
teller, a man came in through the front door on this warm December morning
wearing a full ski mask, with only his eyes showing. He was wringing his
hands and glanced furtively toward the office and then swept his eyes
across the room, finally towards me and the tellers. At that, he turned
and BOLTED back out the door!

The teller next to my position was the first to recognize the implications
of what had just happened, and yelled for the manager who came rushing out
from his office. He glanced toward me before sticking his head out the
front door, looking both ways down the sidewalk, and pronouncing that the
suspicious character had apparently left the area. The same teller then
expressed her relief that I had been there, and mentioned that the next Sun
Trust down on Route 10 (Iron Bridge Road) had just been robbed the week
before.

I regret to say that I was pretty oblivious to anything but the business I
was immediately conducting, and walked out thinking no more about it as a
non-incident at the time. In fact, even later that evening I only
mentioned it as a casual after-thought in a conversation with Philip. He
urged me to write up this account of what had transpired, and I will leave
it to him to dissect and analyze the facts, psychologies, probabilities and
possible alternative outcomes.

FOLLOW UP

I went by the bank again today to make a deposit - same three tellers on
duty. I asked them if the police were called over the ski-masked intruder.
They said no, but they had all discussed the incident yesterday afternoon
and agreed that it was me standing there with a gun at Sharon's window
(first one from the door) that spooked him into changing his plans, and
they all thanked me again (although I didn't DO anything).



************************************************** *************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL).
VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to
defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the
Right to Keep and Bear Arms to be an essential human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
************************************************** *************************

[Jizzle]

theres the first one. there are others. i have the links saved on my work computer. i'll get them tomorrow.

[Jizzle]

heres the direct link if you need it also.
http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=1022854&FILTER=

[Luvs2Play]

Okay

IF I was a BG and walked into a place I was intending to do BG stuff, the first thing I would do is look for anyone that appears willing to stop me from doing it. Should I see someone OCing, I would then decide what approach I want to take. Do I want to avoid this person in order to complete my goal, or do I want to put this OCer in a position that I can either remove him from the incident or use another person to put him in a position of possibly hurting an innocent individual. That would give me the advantage (if I was a BG) completing my task or taking out the OCer first, then completing my job. OC, while it could be a deterrent, can also help a BG.

The thing with CC is a BG will not immediately know. This can also work to his advantage if the CC is new at it or has never been in the situation. He will act really jumpy and nervous trying to decide what to do. The BG has already decided what he will do, he will be calm, and will not have the adrenaline rush, unless it is his first time too.

Just because you are carrying a gun, OC or CC does not mean you are going to use it either, no matter what happens. The best way to keep a BG with a gun calm is to remove yourself from the incident if possible, this may be the best way to keep anyone from being hurt or killed. If I find myself in this type of situation, I will be CCing, to me it gives me the edge just in case I need to act. It may also save my families life by someone not knowing I have a gun. I am going to do whatever I can to live a long and healthy life. Sometimes that means not being a hero.

[Sam]

show me where a non leo Ocer was chosen first becuse he was ocing? please do.
I couldn't show you where, Americans aren't real welcome there these days, but I can show you the scars :cool:

Sam

[Scooter]

Thank you Sam and Luvs2Play. Again, Jizzle, your story is entirely opinionated. LEO's never caught the guy to verify that it was the gun that detered him...maybe he just didn't like the odds of 7 to 1 and didn't even see the gun, you are assuming. And the OC individual even addmitted that he was unaware as to what was transpiring until after the potential BG had left. Had the BG decided to rob the bank, he would have easily had the upper hand on the OC. Had the guy been CC and the robbery went down, now the armed citizen has the ability to choose how and when to engage if at all. The money is insured, and it could have gone down with out anyone getting injured. Had it gone down while he was open carrying, the odds of an injury increase because of the apparent threat to the BG. Guess we will never know since the article is speculation as is what I am writing