Knowing When to Draw

[Bman505]

One of my biggest fears, along with everyone else I am sure, is if and when I have to draw my weapon. It seems like it is very touchy, law wise, as to when it becomes legal to draw your weapon. If you display your firearm too soon, you might get the improper displaying of a firearm charge right? But if you wait to long, it might be too late. Anyone know what I mean??:confused:

[MrReady]

I feel like this, if I draw my weapon on a person they are most likely not the type of person to call the police in any situation. So , if a shady looking person does not listen to my verbal command to stop or back away and I draw he will either be shot or flee. I doubt he would say hey I was just going to hug you and call the cops. Also, bad guy usually have weapons. Its not that simple but I dont want to write a whole essay either.

[Bman505]

Very true MrReady. I just hope that I never have to draw. One reason why we who carry, should practice our verbal commands and drawing our weapons for these types of scenarios. You agree?

[MrReady]

Yes VERY true. Also, you can practice on how to get out and prevent sticky situations so that you wont have to shoot. Being aware of your surroundings can also prevent an attack/incedent.

[nvguncarrier]

excellent question, i am a new ccw carrier ,, that question haunts me all the time,, this is were i stand ,,, if your in my house,, your in trouble unless your back is to me,, outdoors,, yes i agree awareness to your surroundings must become a way of life,, it is your first step in avoiding trouble, second if he is unarmed and i shoot i go to prison, so with that thought i have started carrying a bright flashlight for blinding a person, and a quick access knife,, but if he has a weapon or i have exhausted all escape possibilities, out come the gun,, im still undecided on the idea of dont draw if your not going to shoot, im still undecided,, i guess that will come with more training

[PPK]

Guns are used 2.5 million times a year for defensive purposes. In most cases, no shots are fired. Drawing your gun means you're ready to use it, not that you have to use it.

[Bman505]

Good point PPK. Does practice make perfect??

No, perfect practice makes perfect.

Just a thought I like to go by.

[Descreet38]

While I wish I could have been the one to write the below I will not take any credit for the writing BUT I will take credit for this is a portion I drill into every stuent I have taught in the past 20 years during Close Quarter combat drills - for civilians.

Dez

Fighting within arms reach is close quarters combat. Such fighting may involve wrestling, boxing, knife work, or striking with an object. The following suggestions are for the person who has a pistol, and who may be engaged in up-close combat. These suggestions are particularly for "civilians," not law officers, who operate with a different set of duties and obligations. Also, I make no claims to any expertise, but there are some common sense considerations.

1. Think ahead, and simply avoid combat situations if at all possible. Don't frequent places where fighting occurs regularly. Just don't go there!

2. Stay alert wherever you are. Don't walk around in "condition white." If you have a legal permit to carry a firearm then you are duty bound to focus on your environment and the people around you, wherever you may be. Don't day dream. Don't forget you have a weapon. Don't be stupid.

3. Remember the Five Rules of Concealed Carry. (http://swfsa.tripod.com/CCW_rules.html) You are not allowed to draw and use your weapon unless your life or the lives of innocent people around you are in deadly danger.

Five Rules for CONCEALED Carry

Your concealed handgun is for protection of life only.
Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and life-threatening criminal actions of another.


Know exactly when you can use your gun.

A criminal adversary must have, or reasonably appear to have:
the ability to inflict serious bodily injury (he is armed or reasonably appears to be armed with a deadly weapon),
the opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm (he is physically positioned to harm you with his weapon), and
his intent (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy -- to do you serious or fatal physical harm.
When all three of these "attack potential" elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that can justify an emergency deadly force response.


If you can run away -- RUN!
Just because you’re armed doesn’t necessarily mean you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your "situation awareness" skills so you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble altogether. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might be your bruised ego, which should heal with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation you risk the possibility of you or a family member being killed or suffering lifelong crippling/disfiguring physical injury, criminal liability and/or financial ruin from civil lawsuit. Flee if you can, fight only as a last resort.


Display your gun, go to jail.
You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem. Choose a method of carry that keeps your gun reliably hidden from public view at all times.
You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed handgun. He or she might become alarmed and report you to police as a "man or woman with a gun." Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man with a gun" is going to be more credible to police than you when you're stopped because you match the suspect's description, and you're found to have a concealed handgun in your possession.
Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself: "Is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least, both ability and intent, and is actively seeking the opportunity to do you great harm.


Don't let your emotions get the best of you.
If, despite your best efforts to the contrary, you do get into some kind of heated dispute with another person while you’re armed, never mention, imply or exhibit your gun for the purpose of intimidation or one-upmanship. You’ll simply make a bad situation worse -- for yourself (see rule #4).

4. If a combat situation is materializing under your nose MOVE. If someone has drawn a weapon on you, MOVE. If someone is ABOUT to draw on you, MOVE. If someone is already firing at you or others, MOVE. Move to cover. If there is no cover, move to the "strong side" of the person firing the weapon. Moving sideways is probably better than moving toward or away from your opponent. Draw your own weapon and shoot to stop the danger. If you spend your precious time shouting "stop," or "drop your weapon," etc., the shooter then has more time to shoot again. If the deadly danger is in front of you, don't talk, SHOOT.

5. If the "bad guy" is standing in front of innocent bystanders, drop to a kneeling position to shoot at him, angling your shots upward and thereby missing people behind him. (This is assuming you have TIME and SPACE to drop to one knee. Don't risk your life to assume some sort of range position. Split seconds count.)

6. If you are extremely close to your opponent don't actually touch him with your semi-auto pistol as you are shooting, as that may interfere with the proper operation of your weapon.

7. Take care to retain your firearm. You don't want the bad guy to hold on to it, or snatch it from you. A revolver that is firmly grasped around the cylinder will not fire. Keep your firearm close to your own body, not held out at arms length. You are not at the shooting range. This is close quarters combat.

8. If the bad guy has the drop on you, try to distract him. Throw your wallet or money to the ground at his feet. Throw your coffee in his face. Drop your car keys. Pretend you are sick. Do anything you can to give yourself time and opportunity to draw your own weapon. Then move fast. If you are really up close, grab his gun and use leverage to take his gun away from him.

9. Carry a secret very small back up gun, in case your primary gun mal-functions, or is taken away from you. Carry a secret knife (careful - not legal everywhere). Don't be without resources.

10. Don't under-estimate the deadliness of non-firearm weapons in the hands of your opponent. Up close and personal a knife or a lead pipe is just as deadly as any firearm.
11. Give it your ALL. If your life is in danger, then get serious! Be violent! Put your heart into it! Don't be considerate of the bad guy. He is trying to kill you, so fight back! This is real life, not some TV show where the hero always bends over backward to give the bad guy one more chance to kill him. Don't quit shooting until you are sure that he's not going to get up and come after you again.

[Bman505]

Dez,
This is great. Thank you for sharing this. That is valuable info.

[CloudcroftP&D]

Great (!) post Dez. I knew all of this at one time, but it of course tends to fade. This should be required monthly reading for all of us until it is burned into our brains.

[Jizzle]

the most important part is and im gonna steal a quote from someone.

"You cannot defend yourself against a threat that you are not aware of."

Keep your head on a swivel. And if you ever get put into a situation where you have to draw/shoot your weapon I hope you are able to make that decision as fast as humanly possible and don't second guess yourself. No one can make the decision for you.

[Bman505]

Sounds like something I heard from Richard.

[Sam]

The question was "knowing when to draw".
And that is simple.
When do I draw, Approx .12 second after I have decided to shoot.

[Jizzle]

I wouldn't draw either unless it was time to shoot. Other than that it stays in it's hole.

[jsnole]

I really like what Dez posted, its very valuable info. Thanks Dez!!

[calvin]

Good job Dez. and I agree with Sam but I don't why it takes him so long to draw. ha,ha,ha. Just poking fun Sam.

[Sam]

Well Calvin,
I used to be a bit faster but 2 years ago my right hand got into it with a chainsaw and doesn't work right any more.
That afew years and a touch of the arthuritis will generally do it.

Sam

[Bman505]

Well Calvin,
I used to be a bit faster but 2 years ago my right hand got into it with a chainsaw and doesn't work right any more.
That afew years and a touch of the arthuritis will generally do it.

Sam

Ouch!! If I was going to pick a fight, it wouldn't be with a chainsaw! What happened?

[Sam]

Set the saw down to pull up another piece of wood for cutting, pulled the log across and bumped the back of the right hand into the idling blade. It was barely moving, maybe 5 fpm but in typical chainsaw fashion it cut a 5/16 kerf from "the dorsal distal minimus metacarpal, to the original medius metacarpal". back of the right pinky to the wrist end of the middle finger's hand bone. Cut some nerves and bled like a stuck hog. Barely pinked 2 tendons. Took a 3 hour wait in the ER lobby at GCRMC (dingbat couldn't understand why I wouldn't fill out the form, hard when you can't pick up the pencil) about 2 hours to glue down the frayed tendon fibers and stitch up the skin. 3 weeks to stretch the skin back to where the hand could close and then a lot of dexterity exercises.
I can no longer play the guitar or banjo :( but I shoot just fine and almost no scarring at all. :D

Gave me lots of enforced weak hand practice and one hand manipulation drills.

[MasterBlaster]

Now that's a case sensetive subject!

[stoneridge]

While I wish I could have been the one to write the below I will not take any credit for the writing BUT I will take credit for this is a portion I drill into every stuent I have taught in the past 20 years during Close Quarter combat drills - for civilians.

Dez

Fighting within arms reach is close quarters combat. Such fighting may involve wrestling, boxing, knife work, or striking with an object. The following suggestions are for the person who has a pistol, and who may be engaged in up-close combat. These suggestions are particularly for "civilians," not law officers, who operate with a different set of duties and obligations. Also, I make no claims to any expertise, but there are some common sense considerations.

1. Think ahead, and simply avoid combat situations if at all possible. Don't frequent places where fighting occurs regularly. Just don't go there!

2. Stay alert wherever you are. Don't walk around in "condition white." If you have a legal permit to carry a firearm then you are duty bound to focus on your environment and the people around you, wherever you may be. Don't day dream. Don't forget you have a weapon. Don't be stupid.

3. Remember the Five Rules of Concealed Carry. (http://swfsa.tripod.com/CCW_rules.html) You are not allowed to draw and use your weapon unless your life or the lives of innocent people around you are in deadly danger.

Five Rules for CONCEALED Carry

Your concealed handgun is for protection of life only.
Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and life-threatening criminal actions of another.


Know exactly when you can use your gun.

A criminal adversary must have, or reasonably appear to have:
the ability to inflict serious bodily injury (he is armed or reasonably appears to be armed with a deadly weapon),
the opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm (he is physically positioned to harm you with his weapon), and
his intent (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy -- to do you serious or fatal physical harm.
When all three of these "attack potential" elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that can justify an emergency deadly force response.


If you can run away -- RUN!
Just because you’re armed doesn’t necessarily mean you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your "situation awareness" skills so you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble altogether. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might be your bruised ego, which should heal with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation you risk the possibility of you or a family member being killed or suffering lifelong crippling/disfiguring physical injury, criminal liability and/or financial ruin from civil lawsuit. Flee if you can, fight only as a last resort.


Display your gun, go to jail.
You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem. Choose a method of carry that keeps your gun reliably hidden from public view at all times.
You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed handgun. He or she might become alarmed and report you to police as a "man or woman with a gun." Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man with a gun" is going to be more credible to police than you when you're stopped because you match the suspect's description, and you're found to have a concealed handgun in your possession.
Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself: "Is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least, both ability and intent, and is actively seeking the opportunity to do you great harm.


Don't let your emotions get the best of you.
If, despite your best efforts to the contrary, you do get into some kind of heated dispute with another person while you’re armed, never mention, imply or exhibit your gun for the purpose of intimidation or one-upmanship. You’ll simply make a bad situation worse -- for yourself (see rule #4).

4. If a combat situation is materializing under your nose MOVE. If someone has drawn a weapon on you, MOVE. If someone is ABOUT to draw on you, MOVE. If someone is already firing at you or others, MOVE. Move to cover. If there is no cover, move to the "strong side" of the person firing the weapon. Moving sideways is probably better than moving toward or away from your opponent. Draw your own weapon and shoot to stop the danger. If you spend your precious time shouting "stop," or "drop your weapon," etc., the shooter then has more time to shoot again. If the deadly danger is in front of you, don't talk, SHOOT.

5. If the "bad guy" is standing in front of innocent bystanders, drop to a kneeling position to shoot at him, angling your shots upward and thereby missing people behind him. (This is assuming you have TIME and SPACE to drop to one knee. Don't risk your life to assume some sort of range position. Split seconds count.)

6. If you are extremely close to your opponent don't actually touch him with your semi-auto pistol as you are shooting, as that may interfere with the proper operation of your weapon.

7. Take care to retain your firearm. You don't want the bad guy to hold on to it, or snatch it from you. A revolver that is firmly grasped around the cylinder will not fire. Keep your firearm close to your own body, not held out at arms length. You are not at the shooting range. This is close quarters combat.

8. If the bad guy has the drop on you, try to distract him. Throw your wallet or money to the ground at his feet. Throw your coffee in his face. Drop your car keys. Pretend you are sick. Do anything you can to give yourself time and opportunity to draw your own weapon. Then move fast. If you are really up close, grab his gun and use leverage to take his gun away from him.

9. Carry a secret very small back up gun, in case your primary gun mal-functions, or is taken away from you. Carry a secret knife (careful - not legal everywhere). Don't be without resources.

10. Don't under-estimate the deadliness of non-firearm weapons in the hands of your opponent. Up close and personal a knife or a lead pipe is just as deadly as any firearm.
11. Give it your ALL. If your life is in danger, then get serious! Be violent! Put your heart into it! Don't be considerate of the bad guy. He is trying to kill you, so fight back! This is real life, not some TV show where the hero always bends over backward to give the bad guy one more chance to kill him. Don't quit shooting until you are sure that he's not going to get up and come after you again.

What an awesome post. Like some one said this should be mandatory reading once a month. I hope this gentleman is still an active member.

[crzyjarmans]

i live in nevada,and if your weapon is seen by a citizen pending on what action caused it will resolt in arrest,for example if you drop your keys and bend over to pick them up,and a passer byer see your weapon and call the police,they will come and investigate,inform you to be more carefull and send you on your way,had this very same thing happen to me,when the police approached me about my weapon,said they where responding to a call about a mwg,told I was carring and do have a ccw,I ased them what happened and they said someone saw the weapon when i bent over to pick up my keys,they check my id and ccw, returned my weapon and said to try and be more careful when bending over, I apologized to the officers for there trouble, they smiled and said thats what there their for

[PhxAz XD9]

Well said Dez. Thanks brother. It's always good to hear things differently from educated peeps. Live long and safe. Shoot fast and straight...

[PhxAz XD9]

Sorry. Stoneridge, thanks brother....

[Bman505]

Dez was the original poster on that. Good stuff!

[tac-safe]

I think everyone has that fear in the back of their head. As long as you train and know when you can and can't use your handgun, your good. If you ever have to sit back and question your actions prior to engaging, your probably not in a shoot situation. I recommend carrying a non-lethal tool, for those times you just don't know. Better to have options than not. Read some of my articles at http://www.tac-safe.com/

[spudder]

crzyjarmans

i live in nevada,and if your weapon is seen by a citizen pending on what action caused it will resolt in arrest,for example if you drop your keys and bend over to pick them up,and a passer byer see your weapon and call the police,they will come and investigate,inform you to be more carefull and send you on your way,had this very same thing happen to me,when the police approached me about my weapon,said they where responding to a call about a mwg,told I was carring and do have a ccw,I ased them what happened and they said someone saw the weapon when i bent over to pick up my keys,they check my id and ccw, returned my weapon and said to try and be more careful when bending over, I apologized to the officers for there trouble, they smiled and said thats what there their for

you know I always wonder how often that happens .. ..and I have always been scared that little granny... would have the whole swat/police force/atf/fbi .. down on me.. and I would end up on the evening news .. lol .. .
I have asked a couple friends of mine,,from church (who are police officers )...both said just hand your cwp to the officer when it happens .. and one kinda smarty pants said ... "I've never been called about a person carrying legally """...... of which I took as a warning from him ,, or knee jerk reaction lol .. he was a new officer lol
HOWEVER ,, I do see situations like this happening more ,,, now that a lot more citizens are getting permits .. I would like to hear from officers/anybody who something like this has happen to them ..

[spudder]

sorry to jump in the thread ,, , kinda off subject .. read it , and jumped when I read jarmans post