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View Full Version : Glock vs. Beretta M9 - Field day at the Range!


Descreet38
02-28-2009, 09:31 PM
My wife's niece's husband is a Deputy Sherriff here in MN. He has never had anything good to say about Beretta and we have has several "friendly" discussions as to these two firearms.

Last Tuesday he and our niece were over and we again discussed the reliability and accuracy of the two firearms. Our niece suggested we go to the range and settle this for the sake of finding something else to discuss we are around each other.

WELL – today was that day. We decided on a two-fold approach to settle our disagreements.

1. Accuracy test.

- 20 targets each. We agreed to use NRA B-6 50’ standard targets as follows:

- 5 at 10’, 5 at 15’, 5 at 25’, and 5 at 50’.

- Time limit of 2 minutes per target, 10 shots per target, and we could throw out the three worst on each target.

- Possible Scoring using best 7 for each target of course was 1,400

Actual scores:


- Deputy Sherriff – 1080 and that isn’t bad at all
- Dez – 1320 and yes I had to drop three from each target.

His slowest target was 1 minute 27 seconds
His fastest target was 23.67 seconds
My slowest – 27.34 seconds
My fastest – 9.28 seconds

2. Endurance test. Well the deputy wanted to clean his Glock so I went outside and smoked a couple of cigarettes. Came back in and he was just about ready to go so we decided on the following.
- Our wives agreed to reload magazines.
- All ammunition is to be at our choosing
- We would use one full size LEO target. Firing time not to exceed 30 seconds per magazine.
- We would shoot until we experienced a malfunction. If malfunction was FTL or FTF due to ammo we would rack, check and continue. If failure was due to weapon we would investigate and determine next steps.
- No cleaning of firearm after we begin.

RESULTS

Glock
– Round 572 Glock jammed. Was cleared and continued.
– Round 1758 Glock failed to extract. Cleared and continued
– Round 2308 Glock failed to fire. Factory round but light impression in primer. Cleared and filed OK – continued
– Round 3496 – Glock failed to allow slide to go all the way into battery and would not fire. Cycled a couple of times and slide went into battery.
– Round 3768 – Glock failed to go into battery for 5 consecutive times and owner stated OK – I guess I’m done until I clean this thing.

Beretta

- Round 1729 I experienced a failure of slide to lock back on last round. New mag of ammo, racked and continued to fire.
- Round 3922 – FTF, primer indented very well but a no go.
- Round 5119 – FTE slide a little sluggish but continued to fire.
- Round 5287 – Slide would return to battery. Cycle twice and continued.
- Round 5434 – Slide wouldn’t return to battery – Finally too dirty.

We were on the range at 9am this morning and shot almost no-stop until 5pm other than a short break for lunch.

The most interesting part of this also dealt with the ammo choice. He shot almost all Federal and my choice was 100 % my reloads.

Needless to say, we just home from the Outback, and YES he bought dinner and drinks for all four of us AND – guns were not discussed at all after we left the range but several times our wives commented on us still moving our wrists around. Yes it is sore.

The moral – and just my humble opinion. This proves that both firearms are reliable and also is why the US Military carries a Beretta. As far as the Glock – it is a very fine weapon and even though I don’t own one. If I needed to place the trust into one to save my life I could and would. It performed very well. I actually expected it to fail a whole lot earlier than it did.

Bottom Line - what a fun day but now I sure have some reloading to do. :)

AGust82
03-01-2009, 12:39 PM
That's the most thorough side by side I've ever seen. It must have cost a fortune in ammo.

Jizzle
03-01-2009, 01:16 PM
here's a question discreet, was he running his glock wet or dry? and where you running full power loads? also, how much experience does he have shooting? cause i hit clays at 50 yards pretty consistently with my G20. without taking a whole lotta time and offhand.

oh and what caliber?

Descreet38
03-01-2009, 04:10 PM
Hey Jizzle -

Thanks for bringing this up because it also sets the shoot-off even more one sided. After the accuracy testing he cleaned his Glock and oiled it. I holstered and later came back in for the endurance round so add 1,400 rounds to each of the totals under the Beretta for endurance.

Not sure how he ran it but he spent about 15 minutes cleaning and oiling it before we began the endurance testing. I didn't touch my Beretta except for shooting it. The endurtance test rule was - once round one was fired we could not clean or lube.

So my total round count was actually 6,834 before it refused to continue.

Of course I did go into this already knowing the following about the original testing back in 1985:

7 of the 12 Beretta exceeded 5,000 rounds before the first issue.
3 of the 12 surpassed 7,500.
One pistol exceeded 10,000 rounds before its first problem.

I also use Miltech-1 as the only oil and grease for all of my firearms. It performs very well and evidently has a long residual effect when properly applied.

For the ammo - we were both shooting 9mm. he was firing factory Federal 124gr. FMJ plinking. As stated I shot nothing but my own reloads. I load everything to approximate the same power factor of what I carry. Being military I am sure you are familiar with the expression - Train the way you Fight. I don't train with FMJ plinking and then carry something hotter. I think this also gives me an edge in accuracy due to knowing where my ammo goes based upon point of aim.

For Defense loads I carry Federal HydraShok 115gr , +P+. My reloads - they are over +p but probably not +P+. I do like a small margin of safety in reloading.

Took me over an hour and a half to clean and lube today but she looks like new. My wife is complaining that her thumb hurts from loading mag. She should have my wrist today.

I've typed most of ths post with my left hand only so sorry for any typo's.

Jizzle
03-01-2009, 06:28 PM
cool thanks for the info. shooting your own reloads are adventagious. i woulda done the same as you. i oil a glock very very little if at all when i clean it (being in a desert and all the dust just clings to oil here and fouls up your gun, not to mention glocks need very little to start with). but, i'm actually not to suprised that his had some issues. for some reason my being left handed fouls up my buddies g17 all the time. I'm not sure exactly the cause but, it does the exact same thing when he fires off hand. It fails to go back into battery fully. I've never had a problem with the G20 though. it's a champ. i put a few hundred threw it yesterday.

sounds like you have quite a bit of work ahead of you this week lol. enjoy your time and lemme know how your hands feel after reloading all those rounds in the upcoming weeks.
BTW my buddy recently purchased the civilian equivalent of the M-9 and wants to know what the proper way to open carry it. I told him one in the chamber hammer down safety off. but, i don't have much experience with berrettas. anyway whats your opinion?

Descreet38
03-02-2009, 07:18 AM
I would suggest that your friend and maybe you do some wrist exercises. I may be wrong but most people who experience what you are describing (especially weak or off hand) are commiting what is termed as "limp wrist". This tends to allow your wrist to take up some of the inertia and prevents the slide from going completely back.

Not sure but when a person fires good with the strong hand and has problems with the weak hand this is usually the problem.

Other than a M1911 or Glock style - I only suggest one method of carry. Loaded and safety off. Of course I am opinionated but then I would venture that 99% of those that carry do so in a condition one state - Draw and pull the trigger.

1911 - cocked and locked. Glock and similiar styles of safe action - no actual safety lever.

About the only time I use the safety on a Beretta is for dropping the hammer when done. I then move back to firing position. I also check to ensure it is off safe when I holster it.

Jizzle
03-02-2009, 07:36 AM
cool, so i was correct. thanks sir. for some reason it's only his G17 and only when i fire left handed and i am left handed. when i fire it right handed it works like a champ. i'm not sure why. i have many different pistols that i shoot quite a bit and thats the only one i've ever had do it. ill proceed with the wrist excercises. have a good one.

Descreet38
03-03-2009, 08:11 AM
Only a question but - do you have any tendancy to be concerned about the hot brass? I have a couple of SouthPaw buddies who had to overcome this. Their issue was the same as yours. Shot fine off hand (R) but had issues with strong hand. Come to find out they were gripping tight but had loose wrist.
Just an idea.

Another thought is that when shooting your friends G17. Has he changed out the mainspring to ease the slide speed when firing +p or +P+. A stronger than stock spring coupled with a loose wrist almost always spells FTE or FTL

Jizzle
03-03-2009, 11:29 AM
he's useing a stock glock but his own reloads which tend to be a little bit lighter than your average storebought plinking load.

Jizzle
03-03-2009, 11:32 AM
btw i load all my 10mm as hot as is safe. I don't worry about hot brass btw. The glock throws it a decent distance away.