Damn Dog

[jan303]

I was out walking this morning and I came face to face with a big mean dog. I don't know you felt me there,, BIG MEAN DOG!!:eek: It looked like a German Shepard mix. Well I froze instantly as he stood there growling at me. I didn't know what to do at first. We had about 10 feet between us. The only thing that I new to do at this moment was reach slowly for my gun. I didn't draw it completely but enough that I had a firm grip on it. Well, I guess he didn't know what to do either as we stood there staring at each other. I guess dogs(at least this one) knows what a gun is because he backed down after about 3 min which felt like 30. It left me walking real fast and looking back over my shoulder the rest of the way home. If the dog had come closer like he wanted to attack, would I be in trouble for shooting him? Being a woman, it would have been hard to try and fight him. I am sure even you men would have, this dog was big.

[Scooter]

My thought on the matter is it's just a damn dog. I would have done the same thing, if not shot when it was at 10 feet. In my concealed carry class we were taught the 20 foot rule. A man a 20 feet can close the distance and attack before you have the chance to draw. Just think what a pissed off dog could do from 10 feet while you're attempting to draw.

From a legal stand point I can't say I truely know, but if it was that big and growling like it was going to attack, I would shoot before taking the risk

[Bman505]

I would have had my gun completely drawn on pointed at the dog. Scooter is right, 10 feet is way to close for comfort. I am sure you had a lot going through your head at the time of wondering what to do. I recommend consistent practice. Thank you for sharing your story with us, I hope we have helped with future scares.
I would like to see more imput from other forum members on this.

[jniles]

The answer to the legal question depends on your state laws. I asked this question when I was in CW Permit training in OK during the legal portion which was taught by a practicing lawyer that also carried. Her answer was "You have the right to defend yourself." I replied, "But if I shoot the doq will I be in legal trouble?" She replied, "You HAVE the right to DEFEND yourself!"

Guess the implication is she would have a client to represent.

This happened to me one night long before CW was allowed here. I got out of a car in a hurry to approach a house next to my neighbor's house that owned a very large Doberman. They don't make much noise. As I stepped out of the car and took a step into the yard I heard a low growl and stopped dead in my tracks to see this guy crouching on point with bared teeth. I had stopped in mid stride staring at this guy about 10 and no more than 15' away and way too close. No way could I turn my back and take the step and a half back to the car. I stood there with both hands clenched and arms down. I lowered my head to imitate his crouch all the while talking very low (and I am sure quivery too). I said words to the effect "Don't you do it you SOB. I will kill you. Go away don't do it. I promise you I will kill you you SOB." No abbreviations were actually used at the time. He just stood there and finally his body moved back about an inch or two while his feet stayed planted. I moved my neck forward with scowling face and leaning more toward him still keeping up my nasty low talk. Next he took one step back and I slowly took the half step forward continued talking and he broke. So did I. Was in the car in 2 seconds and on the phone in one minute to my neighbor to put him up.

What is it about dogs? They seem to hesitate when by themselves and not trained otherwise by Military or Law folks before attacking, thank God. Sorry for the long story but you struck a nerve. One that seems most likely to happen but more rare with all the leash laws.

Later,

John

[Bman505]

I am sure that would have caused some tension between you and your neighbor if you shot and killed his dog. His fault for not controlling his dog. Glad you didn't have to shot though.

[nvguncarrier]

hi there ,,,, i have read a few articles on this subject, yet no personal experience with it,,, UNLESS the dog is PROFESSIONALLY trained to attack ie,, police or military,, most dogs bark is worse than there bite ,, if you present yourself in a loud aggresive behavior,, the dogs flight mechanism kicks in and it will choose to back away,, thats not to say that i wouldnt have drawn my gun just in case,, why shoot if we really dont have to,,,

[Bman505]

I was at the range yesterday and our firearms instructor, Riclin had a good training for this type of incidence. Get a empty milk jug and tie a long rope to it. Have someone behind you pull on the rope as if it was an attacking dog. The person draws and fires at the jug as it is coming towards them. Give it a try. Remember, always practice firearms safety.

[jniles]

Bman505,

Pleeease, your not going to shoot Phydeaux! R U?

In my case I did not have a gun. Happened years before CC was legal.

Later,


John

[Bman505]

beware of Bman505:eek:

[GoatRoper]

You know in 22 years as a Deputy Sheriff, going up to farm houses with their farm dogs and houses in town, I was not bit one time. I worked a K-9 for 6 years and was never bitten. We hired a retired fireman as a process server and the first year that he was on, he was bit six times. I think dogs can detect fear in a person and that is the reason that they bite.

[canebrake]

You know in 22 years as a Deputy Sheriff, going up to farm houses with their farm dogs and houses in town, I was not bit one time. I worked a K-9 for 6 years and was never bitten. We hired a retired fireman as a process server and the first year that he was on, he was bit six times. I think dogs can detect fear in a person and that is the reason that they bite.

Fear or threat?

[bang bang]

Down Fido! Down!

[JDingman]

I'm a walker, too, and had a similar problem with a big, barking, growling, dog threatening me. This was before I began carrying a gun while walking BUT... I did have a small, key chain sized pepper spray with me that my sister had given to me (she worked for a Sheriff's Dept. and thought I should have it). I gave the dog one quick shot of pepper spray and it immediately stopped him, he pawed at his face and turned and ran away. Years ago when working for a transit system up north I watched a demonstration on one of my co-workers and saw him drop to his knees after being sprayed with pepper spray. This stuff really works and saves you the dilemma of deciding whether to shoot a dog or not.

[bang bang]

Good point. I would rather do that than shoot. I got a dose of pepper spray once out side of a bar. I was in line waiting to get in and the bouncers were ejecting this huge bald guy. As they were throwing him out, he turned to confront them and he got a good dose of spray. Well, I did to as it bounced off his bald head and into my face.:mad:

[dagodave]

The wife and I had a situation one day while walking with a Pit Bull. The dog was running loose on the street and a boy was chasing it. Guess it got out of the house. Anyway it saw us and made a bee line straight for us. I told the wife to get behind me and I reached into my pocket and on to my "J" frame. The dog stopped not 5 feet away from me staring me down and I told the boy to get the dog away from us or there was going to be a big problem. He gave me the "he won't hurt you" and I again told him to get it away from us. I had my "J" frame half out of my pocket but the kid got it to run away. I saw a guy coming down the street with two little schnausers and told him to turn around cause of the pit bull. He said he knew the dog and said it was mean and that when the owner walked it he muzzled it. We do not walk that street now.

[Descreet38]

Dogs, Bears - same difference when it comes to being face to face with them. NEVER turn and run! When in close quarters always face and look directly in the direction of the animal but do not lock eye to eye contact.

While I am not a shrink it has something to do with - not cowering (fear) but yet not posing a direct threat, eye to eye.

While in Colorado in mid 80' Deer hunting I came face to face with a very large Brown Bear with two little Cubs. While I never want to repeat the test again the above worked for me.

BTW - if it becomes physical remember to protect the two most critical areas - throat and belly. Roll up in a tight ball. Of course if you have to get into either the animal or you, remember you're fighiting for your life. Good luck to you and remember this animal could be as deadly as a perswon with a knife/gun.

[CloudcroftP&D]

These are difficult situations, and there are no perfect answers.

My wife has trained dogs in agility, obedience and Schutzhund for about 20 years. She is exclusively a Rottweiler girl, so she is no stranger to strong dogs.

During the last 18 or so years she trained continuously with a company that trained a lot of K-9 units for Texas and NM police and sheriff departments. I always try to keep common interests with my wife, so I wound up training with a lot of those K-9 units. Over the years, we have owned several dogs that were trained along similar lines to defend us and our home.

One of the common sense rules during all of this was that if you were going to own a protection dog, you had to spend a good deal of time hiding in dark buildings in a padded suit to help train the K-9 units. So, I have been bitten by the best of em.

These things are very difficult to predict, but in my experience dogs bite either out of fear or training. If a dog is well trained it isn’t going to bite you unless you deserve it. In that case, you most likely will be badly hurt even if you are carrying a gun. Of course, you are not going to encounter a dog like this unless you break into someone’s home or a police officer sends their dog to deal with you.

Normally what you encounter on the street is a fear biter. Personally, I probably wouldn’t try to shoot one of these because I’m probably not a good enough shot. I believe that the most important thing is to do your best to maintain a calm and assertive energy level. Do not act fearful, act dominant. If the thing really does try to attack you, kick it with all of your might. As long as you don’t do a weeny or tentative kick, you will get your point across and the dog will most likely flee. The key here of course is the difference between being dominant and tentative. If you act like prey, the dog’s prey drive may kick in and it will treat you as such. If you act like a more dangerous dog, it will very likely look for entertainment elsewhere.

Of course, like humans, there are also psycho dogs. Normally of course, these poor things were made nuts by some wonderful person. In that case, you might be in for a fight with both the posycho dog and its psycho owner. I have been told by some trainers that pepper spray is a better bet than anything other than a shotgun. I imagine this is true because it might be easier to hit a moving dog with a cloud of pepper spray than a bullet. Of course, if it is truly psycho it may just ignore the pepper spray. If you ever encounter one of these, wow, I would think you would have to treat it like an armed person and protect yourself and fight for your life.

[Bman505]

Good stuff there CloudcroftP&D. Thanks for the info. I have heard that before, never back down from a bear, mountain lion, or dog. That is what they want you to do in a sense.

[bang bang]

Are we still talking about this dog? This dog should be shot by now. hehehe:D

[Bman505]

Looks like the dog finally got the point. heehehe

[jsnole]

I agree, the dog would have been staring down my barrel. Also, in regards to bears. Brown/Grizzly bears will leave if you play dead(rolling up in a fetal position). They will come back to eat you later thus giving you time to escape. Black bears are a different animal. DO NOT roll up!!! They eat what they kill on the spot. If you play dead, you will start to be eaten. Not a good thing! If faced with a black bear attack, fight for your life. I hunt in an area with black bears and have taught all my kids this lesson. I hope none of us ever have to use it!

[mwd]

I keep a Kimber pepper spray on my belt just to keep something in between nothing and deadly.

[NMDawg]

my wife had a situation with a neighbor's dog. This dog is large, taller than heelers, but still a pup. He still has to grow into his ears. Well the first incident she was coming home from a walk and this dog comes out from the front yard and runs at her. Thank God there were some guys doing some fence work for another neighbor and saw what was happening and they scared the dog off.

Second incident similar the the first but this time she turned on the dog and yelled at with her Kimber pepper spray in hand "I'm ready for now!" The dog stopped short and stood there about ten feet away. Just seconds later the owner called the dog back and it listened to him after several attempts.

I ran into this dog in the alley and we just looked at each other and when I turned full body towards him he left.

I don't think this dog was wanting to attack but was more interested in our heelers. But still in the precious seconds between point A and point B what do you do? Me? I say protect yourself.

Also here in Portales when a dog leaves the owners property were it should stay, it is know as an "animal at large". Which means you can take what ever measure needed to deal with it. I was told this by an animal control officer.

Anyway that's my dog story.

Third time my wife took a walk in that same direction there was no incident.

[Jizzle]

my wife had a situation with a neighbor's dog. This dog is large, taller than heelers, but still a pup. He still has to grow into his ears. Well the first incident she was coming home from a walk and this dog comes out from the front yard and runs at her. Thank God there were some guys doing some fence work for another neighbor and saw what was happening and they scared the dog off.

Second incident similar the the first but this time she turned on the dog and yelled at with her Kimber pepper spray in hand "I'm ready for now!" The dog stopped short and stood there about ten feet away. Just seconds later the owner called the dog back and it listened to him after several attempts.

I ran into this dog in the alley and we just looked at each other and when I turned full body towards him he left.

I don't think this dog was wanting to attack but was more interested in our heelers. But still in the precious seconds between point A and point B what do you do? Me? I say protect yourself.

Also here in Portales when a dog leaves the owners property were it should stay, it is know as an "animal at large". Which means you can take what ever measure needed to deal with it. I was told this by an animal control officer.

Anyway that's my dog story.

Third time my wife took a walk in that same direction there was no incident.

Becareful what you believe from public safety officers of any kind.. They arn't reliable sources without a statute to reference.

[Bman505]

I was speaking to a State Police Officer yesterday who was off duty. He was driving down a street here in Alamo the other day and saw two young girls walking down the street. He then noticed two pitbulls running right towards them. He turned his car around to go back their way when both dogs attacked the girls. He got out and shot one of the dogs and the other one ran away. He said within minutes there where 15 cops there to shots fired calls. He said it is perfectly legal to protect you or other persons when lives are in danger. Funny thing is, not a word of this was in our news paper about this.

[NMDawg]

Point well taken Jizzle, Thanks.

[kybandit]

when dealing with dogs of any sort here in Kentucky, it's best to use discretion; there have been more people killed over dogs and property lines than all other issues combined. We hillbillies tend to be touchy 'bout our dawgs. Just sayin'.

[Jizzle]

Dogs are not going to bike you if you are standing 10 feet from them and they are acting all pissed off at you. That's not an agressive act. The dog is unsure of itself and or you and it's in a defensive state of mind. Letting you know that it's aware of your presence and it doesn't like it.

And agressive dog would have just nailed you. It wouldn't have stood in what you thought was a mexican standoff.

The best thing to do is watch it out of your peripheral vision and do what you where doing or retreat. Eye contact promotes tension and with a dog in that state of mind, you don't want any extra tension. Especially if you are at all scared or unsure, which anyone would be at that time. Stand tall, head up, no eye contact, ignore the dog and keep moving. That's the best idea. Remember to keep it in your peripheral.

[Sam]

Guess the implication is she would have a client to represent.

Nope your right to defense is from ANY threat.