.38 Load data

[Scooter]

Just got set up to start loading for .38/.357 and am looking for any load data anyone may be willing to share. Currently I have 148gr WC, and would like to load these up first. Any powder recommendations from experience? I'm just looking for a mild to moderate load for punching holes in paper. They'll be fired through a 4" S&W 686.

Thanks

[sinclair]

Wow. I know you are new to reloading and I may be reading your post wrong, but the safety issues implied by your post really need addressing. I am more than willing to help, but can you also help with my safety concerns ?

(1) It sounds like you do not have a reloading manual. Please don't take this wrong, but a good reloading manual should be the first thing you acquire, and read cover to cover. There are a lot of good ones out there but my personal choice, if I could only have one would be the LYMAN Reloading Handbook, currently the 49th edition.

(2) The LAST thing you ever want to do is look for reloading data from posters on the internet. A lot of the powder manufacturers maintain load data on their web sites, and is a fair alternative to a reloading manual.

(3) Every gun is different when it comes to reloading. Do you plan on testing the loads you make for that specific gun before going into mass production ? How will you test loads ? What do you look for ? That is what a good manual will tell you.

(4) Becoming an experienced reloader requires that you survive your early efforts. That's why I am putting some time into this response.

(5) If you intend to jump in and start loading without regard to load development, then find multiple load data sources and use the MINIMUM load there, for the bullet and components you are going to assemble. Even changing primer brands can be enough difference to require working up your loads again.

(6) Everything above applies to revolvers. Automatics add more steps to working on load development. Start with 38 special before going to the 357. Generic loadings for the 357 tend to involve double the pressure levels of the 38.

(7) Where you seat the bullet is very important also. Seating the bullet too deep can cause drastic pressure increases. See illustration below. In that example, a one tenth of an inch difference can double the cartridge pressure level rapidly.

http://www.concealcarrychat.com/gallery/data/500/Unclenick.JPG

[Scooter]

Wow. I know you are new to reloading and I may be reading your post wrong, but the safety issues implied by your post really need addressing. I am more than willing to help, but can you also help with my safety concerns ?

(1) It sounds like you do not have a reloading manual. Please don't take this wrong, but a good reloading manual should be the first thing you acquire, and read cover to cover. There are a lot of good ones out there but my personal choice, if I could only have one would be the LYMAN Reloading Handbook, currently the 49th edition.

(2) The LAST thing you ever want to do is look for reloading data from posters on the internet. A lot of the powder manufacturers maintain load data on their web sites, and is a fair alternative to a reloading manual.

(3) Every gun is different when it comes to reloading. Do you plan on testing the loads you make for that specific gun before going into mass production ? How will you test loads ? What do you look for ? That is what a good manual will tell you.

(4) Becoming an experienced reloader requires that you survive your early efforts. That's why I am putting some time into this response.

(5) If you intend to jump in and start loading without regard to load development, then find multiple load data sources and use the MINIMUM load there, for the bullet and components you are going to assemble. Even changing primer brands can be enough difference to require working up your loads again.

(6) Everything above applies to revolvers. Automatics add more steps to working on load development. Start with 38 special before going to the 357. Generic loadings for the 357 tend to involve double the pressure levels of the 38.

(7) Where you seat the bullet is very important also. Seating the bullet too deep can cause drastic pressure increases. See illustration below. In that example, a one tenth of an inch difference can double the cartridge pressure level rapidly.

http://www.concealcarrychat.com/gallery/data/500/Unclenick.JPG

Thanks for taking the time to respond. In response to your questions...
(1) I do have manuals and have read them. Don't own Lymans, but have been looking to get theirs.

(2) I would not blindly trust load data from internet posters. I know some of the people on here from meeting them in person, and follow the saying "trust, but verify." I am mainly looking for individual favorite loads for the 38. Maybe preference for powders for the caliber, or those that you've had problems with accuracy with, etc.

(3) Of course I would test before cranking out mass numbers. I listed the firearm they would be used in so that if anyone out there was loading for a similar firearm they might be able to identify such and pass along what worked for them or didn't work

(4) Thanks for your time

(5) Again, trust but verify. I too can just go from load to load listed in the many manuals. I was hoping to get input as to favorite loads and experience of others. Nothing more than fellow shooters inputs and experiences

(6) I understand the jump in pressures, that's why I'm looking to only load the .38 for now

(7) I also understand the importance of seating depth. I would hope when someone would post there loading experiences, they would include overall length, seat depth, etc.

Thanks again for the time to respond, just want to get fellow shooters input. I would never blindly trust, but if a fellow shooters experience could help me in the right direction without me have to trial 50 loads, that would be beneficial.:D Primers are too hard to come by, and too damn expensive right now:D Again, thanks for your time; and if you have a favorite load I'd love to hear it...and it's source.

[sinclair]

and if you have a favorite load I'd love to hear it...and it's source.

No favorite loads in the wad cutters, but some I have found to be accurate in my own guns. I appreciate your answers. It goes a long way towards the safety aspects, and your question gets right into those aspects. You did not say what type of WC but there are usually two types, assuming they are lead. There are the flat base and the hollow base. The hollow base can be seated flush with the case mouth. The flat base should not be.

I have load experiance with both Unique and Bullseye in the lead wadcutters. My experiance is long ago, although I still have a few around that I shoot from back then. My load data is for lead 148 grain flat base WC, but it derives from old manuals and the powder of those days. Either the powder has changed or modern load data is based on better testing. My old loads were in line with the load data of the day but exceeds the maximum from modern load data manuals. Many of the forums I visit prohibit posting of load data that exceeds the maximum recommended in manuals. I agree with this and will not post those loads. What I will post is straight from Lyman's 49th, page 354. For a 150 grain (no longer list a 148 grain) WC the start and max load for Bullseye is 3.1 gr to 3.5 gr max. For Unique, it is 3.7 to 4.2 gr.

These loads may look a bit on the lighter side for the bullet weight, but bear in mind how deeply the WC will be seated. Lyman says OAL will be 1.317 inches, but it was almost never that long for me. Crimping in the last groove always gave me around 1.240 inches.

If I ever get around to loading more WC's in the 38's, I would do it with Trail Boss. That powder is magical for lead bullets. Everything I have tried with Trail Boss tends to be very accurate. It works well with copper plated bullets but should never be used with copper jacketed bullets. I never loaded WC's in the 357. It made me uncomfortable thinking about it, but I may try that with Trail Boss someday, because of its built in safety factor.

WC's are seated far deeper than any other bullet style, so pressure is always a concern, and thus the in-depth comment to your first post. Here is a quick look at the difference:

http://www.concealcarrychat.com/gallery/data/500/medium/38_spl.JPG

[Scooter]

Thanks for the response. I did just learn something as well. I did not know the difference between the hollow base and flat base WC, or more accurately that both variations exist. It makes perfect sense in the differences in seat depth due to the differnece in pressure that would be generated. Set up the press tonight for loading and gonna start cooking up loads tomorrow. Thanks again for the input

[Colt 45]

I learned some things here too. For example, when I started reloading years ago I didn't start with .38 before moving on to .357, or .44 Special before moving on to .44 Magnum. Not a good idea...

Max

[Scooter]

Well, I went with your thought on this and loaded with Trail Boss. Ended up with 2.5 grains and grouped 4 in an inch off hand at 15 yards with one flyer (likely me being that I was shooting off hand). Don't have chronograph data since I don't own one, but that's the next step.

[sinclair]

when I started reloading years ago I didn't start with .38 before moving on to .357, or .44 Special before moving on to .44 Magnum

There is no fast rule that says to do it that way. But it made me comfortable, especially when getting ready for rifle loads.

Ended up with 2.5 grains and grouped 4 in an inch off hand at 15 yards with one flyer

I suspect you can up the load level some and try for better accuracy. My guess would be around 2.7 gr. Be very careful if you decide to take it above 3.0 gr. I suspect you have noticed how well Trail Boss tends to fill up the case on light weights. Thats a good thing, but there are several reports out there that Trail Boss goes erratic if you try to compress it (as in compressed powder loads). Needs a good eyeball on it with deep seating bullets.

[Scooter]

I suspect you can up the load level some and try for better accuracy. My guess would be around 2.7 gr. Be very careful if you decide to take it above 3.0 gr. I suspect you have noticed how well Trail Boss tends to fill up the case on light weights. Thats a good thing, but there are several reports out there that Trail Boss goes erratic if you try to compress it (as in compressed powder loads). Needs a good eyeball on it with deep seating bullets.

This is why I chose to hold off at 2.5 grains for now. I would like to chrono the load first and then possibly move up a bit since it is such a deep seating round. I loaded up 200 rounds now but will have to test the load again before loading more since I'm out of CCI primers now. The only ones I can find right now are Wolf which I am told performs like Winchesters but I'm gonna run test loads to start with.

[sinclair]

I suspect you can up the load level some and try for better accuracy.

Apology, I was going for a little humor there, given the tight group you shot, I thought that might be obvious. Assuming is my best regular error.

My last try with Wolf primers did not go so well. Cant believe how many missing anvils there were. Tried a lot of primers over the years, but the only regular missfires were the wolfs.

Hope you wont be too disappointed if you crono the loads. They are going to be slow, and that bullet will lose around 25 percent of its start velocity over 50 yards. Think speed brake.

[Scooter]

I don't expect high velocity, just hoping for consistant velocities. I want it for a plinking round. Also, I found data that does infact have slightly higher load levels, but stayed on the conservative side for now. So humor or not, I may be able to find a little more accuracy out of the load.

Thanks for the heads up on the Wolf primers, good thing I only bought 100 to try out before making too much of an investment on what might be a disappointment.