Guns not needed at today's protest

[Colt 45]

Guns not needed at today's protest (http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_14109161?source=most_viewed)
Alamogordo Daily News
Eleanor White, Alamogordo
Posted: 01/02/2010 12:00:00 AM MST

I am dismayed with the announcement that some people want to protest the work being done at the federal level to improve health care for Americans by carrying guns.

In our land of free speech, isn't that intended to intimidate those of us who do not agree with them? I think it is shameful that in a country with our wealth, many people are going without medical care. I am pleased that Congress is making progress toward providing some help.

I am a believer in government as a caretaker of the common good. It is our elected representatives working on our behalf. I regret how many words have been demonized politics, taxes, government and bureaucrat. I wish taxes could become "my share," then we could have meaningful discussions about what services government should provide. To complain about "taxes are too high" without talking about what those taxes do for us is meaningless.

Another one is "the government is taking my money." No, you are indeed paying your share of the public services you get: roads, fire departments, police, schools, libraries, unemployment insurance, disability insurance, environmental protection of the air and water and much more.

For 18 years, I was elected to my township board in Wisconsin. At one meeting, the chairman was absent, so I was chairing the meeting. During a discussion, a young man in the audience said "Oh, now you are going to get political." My response was, "Absolutely. Politics is the process of doing the public's business, so of course, I am being political."

One of my co-workers yes, I was a bureaucrat said that "a bureaucrat is a state employee who has never helped you." If you don't know what work is being done, it is easier to think that work is not needed.

Remember what Pogo said: "We have met the enemy and it is us."

We all have responsibilities for getting our levels of government to serve us. If you want your opinion heard, fine, but please leave your guns at home.

[Jizzle]

She confuses her opinion with fact. It's a common mistake of people that make decisions based on feeling vs good sense. Keep talking lady... Keep talking... I'm sure someone somewhere agrees with you..

[NMDawg]

You're right Jizzle she is confusing her opinion with fact. It is my belief that our government was never intended to be every bodies care taker. But was designed for us to have the freedom to take care of ourselves. That being said I also feel we have a personal responsibility to take care of those who can't take care of themselves.

On the issue of elected officials being political and doing the public's business, that's all well and good but when our elected officials refuse to listen to what they are told to do, then I feel they have gone too far. Then we have two recourses, first we vote them out (which is my first choice). Then if that will not work, if they refuse to listen, and/or can't be voted out or be relieved in a peaceful manner then we have no other choice but to exercise the ultimate use of the second amendment (defense of the Constitution both foreign and domestic). So I will NOT leave my gun at home.

Besides if she doesn't like the government as intended why doesn't she move to Canada or Great Britain? They have high taxes and socialized medicine! :mad:

[Jizzle]

How do you define.. Can't in the quote "That being said I also feel we have a personal responsibility to take care of those who CAN'T take care of themselves."

I look forward to your response.

[Sam]

A 'gun' is needed anywhere I go. If I go to protest, a gun is needed there, likewise with stores resturants, gas stations and doctors offices.

I am a target, pretty much my business, but if you happen to be around me, you, by extension are much more likely to become a target. People really ought to be thrilled that I chose to be armed all the time (or afraid to be near me).

[mwd]

Ironically the right to carry a gun is far more 'legal' than the healthcare bill and sadly the right for Ms. White to be such a nitwit was granted to her with a gun.

[NMDawg]

Jizzle,

By CAN'T I am referring to those unfortunates that can't work to help themselves due to advanced age or physical disability and that do not have family to help them. And by no means am I suggesting that the government take over. There are other recourses, food banks, churches and the like.

Hope this gives you a little more insight to my thinking.

[mwd]

+1 Physically disabled, elderly and our veterans.

Saw a piece on 60 minutes tonight. Modus operandi for the VA system is:

1. Apply for help.
2. Get a denial in 10 months.
3. Appeal
4. Get an answer in 4 YEARS.

This is the same clan we are going to trust our health care system to. Anyone else worried?

[Jizzle]

I'm glad to hear that's your definition.

This healthcare thing is a huge problem. We don't need babysitters or the government to give us stuff. We need them to stop taking stuff and leave us alone..

[NMDawg]

Jizzle,

I agree with you. My take on all this is, the federal government needs to massively down size and do just what the Constitution allows it to do and no more.

[Jizzle]

what happens when you give stuff to people. they take it and then ask for more.. and what do you have to do to be able to provide more? and more? and more?

stop giving stuff to people that don't deserve it or work for it and make everyone but those you mentioned previously take a huge dose of personal responsibility. It's an aquired taste.

[NMDawg]

Bingo Jizzle, Besides being the right thing to do I also think it helps with a man's self respect and self worth. From what I have learned from talking to people of my grandfather's generation and my father's, supporting one's self and being self sufficient was a matter of pride no matter the status in life. In other words no welfare.

[rof68]

During the last depression , people were offered work oppertunities to earn a paycheck .
The CC camps and WPA program gave job to able bodied people in return for a check .
It would be a good idea to return to something like this , instead of just giving the money away and getting nothing in return .
In the past , road projects and forest clearing and building parks , etc, were realized because of those programs .
In the larger scheme , peopls pride was restored [ they had jobs and earned a pay check insteead of welfare].
The people that were still working regular jobs felt a lot better that there taxes were getting something in return , not just a hand out .
Today , they tell us it's un-constatutional to make people do that type of thing -- it's time to change it back , so that those of us that pay taxes , get something in return for our money.
I feel that it's not only your right to work IF ABLE , but your obligation to work and support you and your family AND also contribute by paying your fair share of taxes

[rof68]

Drug tests before a pay check also would put a stop to a lot of drug use on the job .

[Jizzle]

That my friend is an entirely different ball of worms.

Here is a question that was asked of my wife in her sociology class as part of her final.

Is Healthcare a human right?

What's the answer?

[Jizzle]

Drug tests before a pay check also would put a stop to a lot of drug use on the job .

I don't think that drugs should be illegal. Tax em. Whatever you wanna do. Let people ruin their lives if they so chose. I don't think anyone should give them a job or otherwise support them in any way but, it's not up to me to tell you that you can't smoke or shoot up. That's your deal.. Enjoy it while it lasts. And I don't think it should be a federally mandated order that people should pass a drug test prior to recieveing their paycheck that they worked for. It should be up to each business as they see fit.

That's the problem, we have our noses so far into each others business to see if they might be doing something that might infringe in someone elses rights we don't see the glaring problem in front of us. Mind your own damn business and handle yourself as a responsible adult and the world magically turns into a better place.

HOWEVER, and that's a huge HOWEVER. If someone was under the influence when a crime was commited or otherwise, IE driving or whatever under the influence of drugs or alcohol. then guess what, burn them at the stake.. not literally but you get what I mean. Because they where not being responsible adults and they don't deserve to be treated as such.

[rof68]

I don'y go along with that thinking and i'll tell you why .
On the job drug use can KILL , in my profession , high voltage electric work [ up to 500,000 volts ] your life many times depended on your fellow workers . I will NOT put my life in the hands of someone on drugs .
What they do home is fine with me , as long as it doesn't come to work either on them or IN them .
Even driving while can be a killer -- so , I in no way condone drug use , it's NOT a right !!!
Health care IS a right -- IF you can pay for it -- it's NOT my job to pay for YOUR health care !!!
I always paid for myself and my family , why should I now have to pay for some sorry ass , lazy , able to work leach on society?
If you can afford insurance , buy it like I always had to [ and still have to ] but don't tell me I have to pay for yours too , because you chose not to work .

[Jizzle]

I don'y go along with that thinking and i'll tell you why .
On the job drug use can KILL , in my profession , high voltage electric work [ up to 500,000 volts ] your life many times depended on your fellow workers . I will NOT put my life in the hands of someone on drugs .
What they do home is fine with me , as long as it doesn't come to work either on them or IN them .
Even driving while can be a killer -- so , I in no way condone drug use , it's NOT a right !!!
Health care IS a right -- IF you can pay for it -- it's NOT my job to pay for YOUR health care !!!
I always paid for myself and my family , why should I now have to pay for some sorry ass , lazy , able to work leach on society?
If you can afford insurance , buy it like I always had to [ and still have to ] but don't tell me I have to pay for yours too , because you chose not to work .

I agree, but what I said was the federal gov should not be able to dictate what someone can do that does not affect anyone else. Something like drugs at work et or alcohol at work should be handled at the personal leve. IE the company that employs you should be in charge of dictating what they expect from their employees.

and as far as drugs being wrong that's your personal opinion and you are entitled to it. but, you are not entitled to push your opinion of a subject onto someone else just because.

You contradicted yourself. You said, its a right if you can pay for it.... that makes it a commodity, just like food. it's not something that you are entitled to just because you exist. this is an issue that those in office are getting confused and have been getting confused for a long time. how do you feel about welfare or unemployment? my wife would make more a month collecting unemployment than she does at her job, but she won't apply for it and I wouldn't let her anyway because it's wrong even though it's the easy way out. you pay for all of those programs. how does it feel?

and for the record, i have not ever done any drugs and only seen pot once in person and never for the other kinds of illegal drugs. to me they are retarded but, it's just my opinion.